Thursday, 6 August 2015

K127. If we are saved under grace, are we 'forever saved' (even if we do not do anything)? (2)

Yes, we are saved by grace through faith; but not just any kind of faith or any right believing only. But what is true faith? True faith must come by the hearing of God's words, and hearing of God's words is by the hearing the Word through Jesus Christ. Hearing the Word or hearing Jesus is not just to believe and do nothing; it is to hear AND do (Mat 13:18-23). If we do it (Mat 7:15-23 and Luk 6:46-47), we are truly saved by grace through faith. In another words, we are saved by grace and true faith. Otherwise, we are like that house on the sinking sand,  which is not 'forever saved'. But, if our house is built on the rock or foundation which is forever, we are truly forever saved.

I have 'touched' briefly on the 'frogs' in my previous post K126. But today I want to 'chew' a little bit more on it. I must say that I love frogs. Frogs are cute little creatures which are ecological friendly to our physical environment. However, the spirit of the frogs is an abomination to the kingdom of God and churches:
Rev 16:13-15 KJV  And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.  (14)  For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.  (15)  Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

What are those unclean spirits like the frogs?
What are the 'three unclean spirits like the frogs' in Revelation 16? I may not have the most accurate theological answer about the spirits, but I do know that they are the spirits of antiChrist which will rise against the kingdom of God or the words of God in the last days. They may rise in the form of lawlessness, blindness, or nakedness. I believe that the root problem of many churches today is not unrighteousness; but lawlessness or the lost of their garments in the last days. That problem will certainly lead to more blindness and nakedness in the churches. Hence, when the 'frogs' start to 'croak' or appear in our churches, we can say that we are almost at the final stage of lawlessness where blindness and nakedness could be most prominent in the past church history. Many believers may literally think like the 'frogs' or think that they are GREAT in their own 'wells'. But, they do not know that that is not well.
Hence, when John saw the 'frogs' coming, he wrote that Jesus was coming like a thief soon (Rev 16:15); when we see the 'frogs' coming, we should know that Jesus is coming soon too. Why do I say that our churches could be in the 'wells', in bad shape, or in blindness? Why didn't I just say that the world OUTSIDE is in bad shape? It is because I do not want to be a frog under the well, and think that we are well, and give the false impression that we can never be affected by what is happening in other 'wells' or other churches. If our churches would just think like a frog under a 'well' and do nothing, sooner or later the contamination in other 'wells' will come into our 'wells'. Other believers or 'frogs' will just creep into our churches secretly, drawing away our members and corrupting our sound doctrine. If we think like the 'frogs', preach like the 'frogs', or accept the 'frog' mentality, we would soon be taken over by the 'frogs' one day.

What is the 'frog' mentality?
Jud 1:4-5 KJV  For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.  (5)  I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
'Frog' mentality is a philosophy or thinking of self. It is the selfish thinking of our own self or our own well being without being aware of the danger and warning of ungodliness preached or practised by other men or other churches surrounding us. Many do not have the law of God or keep the law of God. Hence, they will just define evil or good simply based on the virtue of their own intellectual understanding or Gnostic belief (The Gnostic people are the hyper spiritual believers who claim to follow Jesus, but it is known that they do not teach the truth. They could be so hyper idealistic about their faith or right believing that they may believe like the hyper grace people too. You may want to know more about them in this website: http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-gnosticism.html)
However, when we warn the churches about them, we are not trying to be condemning or critical; instead, we are just doing like Jude who put the churches in remembrance, that God could save anyone (by grace) and God can destroy anyone (whom He saved by grace) too. God can destroy anyone, including the true believers, Gnostic believers, or agnostic believers. If any of them turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness, they would have denied Jesus Christ. In another words, if we do not deny our Lord Jesus Christ, we must keep the grace of our God under self-control, sound mind (sound doctrine), and godly principle; or else we deny our Lord Jesus Christ too:
Jud 1:4-5 KJV  For there are certain men  crept in unawares .. .. ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Ti 1:7 KJV  For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
2Ti 1:7 LITV  For God did not give a spirit of cowardice to us, but of power and of love and of self-control.
Now, we must think again (yes, common sense again), Can any ungodly men from the outside world force their ways into or storm into our churches and turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness overnight? No, impossible; the ungodly men outside the churches can only turn the grace of their gods (outside) into licentiousness, but the ungodly men inside our churches can certainly change the grace of our God before we can realise it. Sadly, many of us realise it now only after the ungodly men within us have started to teach or preach in our churches. The ungodly men in our churches have convinced many that they are the true believers who know the grace of our God; but unknowingly they are the 'grace 'corruptors' or the 'frogs'.
Now, common sense again, What do the ungodly men or the 'frogs' like the most WHEN THEY ARE IN OUR CHURCHES? Of course, they like it when the Holy Spirit cannot convict them of their sins ! Does it ring a bell now? Of course, they LOVE the series of teaching which tells them that "God cannot judge", "God has no more law for them", "God would never want them to confess any sin", "God would treat them as the righteous no matter how they sin in the past, present, and future", "God would only want them to know repentance as just changing of their minds", "God would only want them to repent like the sheep and do nothing", "God cannot be angry with them", and "The Holy Spirit cannot convict them of any sin". Why? It is because when the Holy Spirit cannot convict them of their sins, none of God's preachers in the churches can convict them of any sin too, and this would give them all the confidence, platforms, and supports from the people in the churches (including the pulpits) to promote all their lawlessness, blindness, and nakedness within the churches.
Of course, it is still ridiculous to say that God cannot convict the true believers too. If Paul or even if a saint could be convicted of his sins or be convicted of being a sinner after he believed, why can't the Holy Spirit convict us after we sinned too?
1Ti 1:15-16 KJV  This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.  (16)  Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering..
Rom 5:8 KJV  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Gal 2:17 KJV  But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Who are the ungodly men in Jude's warning?
Please think again, When Jude said 'certain men or ungodly men crept in unawares ..', who are the ungodly men? Did he say that they are the terrorists, the adulterers, the conmen, the thieves, the murderers, or the wicked men? Of course, we do not deny that they are the ungodly men or unrighteous men. However, Jude was not talking about them. The ungodly men could be anyone or any preacher who live a decent life like a law preacher, a Pharisee, a hypocrite, or a grace preacher too; but God would still think that he is ungodly. So who are the ungodly men or the 'frogs' who can secretly creep in and turn the grace of our God into something else? They can never be the people from the world outside; they can be anyone who preach or teach in our churches. In another words, they can be anyone inside our churches who do not have the spirit of godliness and yet they can preach like God's preachers. Hence, we must know how to identify those who preach godliness and those who do not, especially in the last days:
1Ti 4:5-8 KJV  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.  (6)  If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.  (7)  But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.  (8)  For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
1Ti 6:3-11 KJV  If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;  (4)  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,  (5)  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.  (6)  But godliness with contentment is great gain .. (10) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.  (11)  But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
2Ti 3:5 KJV Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Tit 1:1 KJV Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
1Ti 3:16 KJV  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
If we know the mystery of godliness, do we know that the opposite of godliness is lawlessness, and lawlessness is the deceit of unrighteousness?
2Th 2:7-10 LITV  For the mystery of lawlessness already is working, only he is holding back now, until it comes out of the midst.  (8)  And then "the Lawless One" will be revealed, "whom" "the Lord" "will consume" "by the spirit of His mouth," and will bring to nought by the brightness of His presence. (9) His coming is according to the working of Satan in all power and miraculous signs and lying wonders,  (10)  and in all deceit of unrighteousness in those being lost, because they did not receive the love of the truth in order for them to be saved.
We know that Jesus loves the sinners; but do we know that Jesus hates lawlessness? If we still preach lawlessness or ungodliness, do we think that He will still love us?
Heb 1:8-10 LITV  but as to the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom;  (9)  You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness beside Your fellows." (10)  And, "You, Lord, at the beginning founded the earth, and the heavens are works of Your hands.
Hence, today we do not want to hate the ungodly men; but if the ungodly men have crept in unawares, we tell them to get out, unless they repent. We would still tell them what they do not like to hear: repentance, 'sin no more', and 'there is still grace if they can still humble themselves before God'. Please think, If ungodly men had crept into the early churches including Corinthians', Paul's, Jude's, and Jame's churches, who are we to boast or guarantee that there can never be any ungodly men in our churches today ???
Jas 4:4-10 KJV  Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.  (5)  Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?  (6)  But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.  (7)  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.  (8)  Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.  (9)  Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.  (10)  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
We would not tell our church members that any ungodly men who will just confess or believe is a true believer too. It is also ridiculous to preach that, since we are the true believers, and since the warning is not applicable to the true believers, it is not applicable to us, and therefore, we can just ignore Jude's warning, Jame's warning, or all God's warnings (and sleep or live like the frogs?)

The ungodly men would never teach (and judge) godliness according to the words of God
Have we heard of the ungodly men who keep arguing with God's preachers that they don't care or think about seeking godliness or holiness; but they would think about Jesus only or think about Him effortlessly and radically (without thinking of doing anything)? Yes, I have heard of them who are teaching all our churches today that ANY effort to repent and do good is self-effort. Some of them would even preach that ANY teaching, ANY doctrine, or ANY Bible verses which tell them to repent, to confess their sins, to turn away from their sins, to sin no more, to do good, to pursue holiness, to practise righteousness, to be godly, to be obedient, to keep God's commandments, or to judge, is legalistic teaching or self-effort teaching too. They argue that, UNLESS we preach effortlessly, radically, or graciously like them, or UNLESS we preach no more law or no more effort to obey God, or UNLESS we preach like their smiling preachers without condemning any sin, we would become judgemental like the angry preachers and put the people under the law or condemnation. But, ironically, who is really condemning?
I will tell them, We would be judgemental only if we do not know how to judge or if we do not want to judge at all. If we do not judge with the words of God, we will judge wrongly with our own human wisdom and we may judge the innocent unjustly. But, if we do not judge at all, the ungodly will judge with their false accusation and we would still be responsible for not doing anything. Hence, we must judge. We must not only judge, we must learn to judge righteously and justly.
I will tell the ungodly, Do you know that you are more condemning than others when you simply judge all others as under the law, just because they do not preach like you? So, if we have to explain to you why we must condemn ungodliness or ungodly behaviour again, please do not blame our explanation and complain that we are too judgemental in our reply to you too. Yes, we will never preach like you because we will always tell the people to repent, to confess their sins, to turn away from their sins, to sin no more, to do good, to pursue holiness, to practise righteousness, to be godly, to be obedient, to keep God's commandments, and to judge. But our teaching can never be legalistic teaching or self-effort teaching. If we have to tell the people to be obedient to God, we will simply tell them to keep the commandments of God. We do not like to twist our words, beat around the bush, make God's words of none effect, teach vague instructions, explain different meanings to different people, switch our doctrine manipulatively, sit on the fence, or preach like the 'frogs'. But, we love the law or commandment of God not only because it teaches us the righteous attributes of God; but also because it teaches the simple to know His instructions, His will, and His nature with the wisdom or the words that is beyond the wisdom of this world or the words of men:
Heb 8:10-12 KJV  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:  (11)  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.  (12)  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Many may still argue that we do not need the Holy Spirit to show us or teach us any laws. However, the Bible verses above shows us clearly that if God Himself would put His laws in us, He Himself or His Spirit would teach us His laws so well that we do not need anyone to teach us how to know Him or who He is.
Hence, we will never split the teaching of Jesus from His teaching of godliness, righteousness, holiness, and God's commandments too. In another words, when we preach Jesus, we will never stop preaching His doctrine and commandments to love, to do good, and to practise godliness, righteousness, and holiness too. Anything more, or any less, or any 'frog' which tells us do otherwise, we cast down and bring into captivity to the obedience of Christ:
2Co 10:5-7 KJV  Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;  (6)  And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.  (7)  Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's. 

Do not preach like the 'frogs' or be like 'frogs'
Hence, 'frog' mentality or the spirit of the frogs is the opposite to the Spirit of God. It is opposite of the spirit of power, love, and self-control. It may not cause the believers or preachers to live like the devils or live with the license to sin; but it will certainly cause them to be blind to lasciviousness and wantonness practice in their churches and it will cause them to say nothing or do nothing. They will just want to preach the 'frog' mentality to themselves and others who are like them. When they choose to say nothing or do nothing about the ungodly men who have turned the grace of our God in our churches into lasciviousness and unbridled lust, they are worst than those who practise it. They are the 'lukewarm frogs'.
Rev 3:15-16 KJV  I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.  (16)  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Many preachers and churches think that, by sitting on the fence, they can sit on a better position (or infallible position) to mock at the people from both sides of the fence including repentance preachers who preach strongly against sins. I will tell them, It is fine if you think that you are a grace preachers and would just want to appear gracious to everyone, especially the sinners. However, if you think that you can sit on the fence (or sit on the higher ground) to accuse more people, Jesus won't let you sit in that position and reign for too long with your 'frog' mentality, 'lukewarm' mentality, 'ding dong bell' mentality, or the hot-and-cold mentality. He will spue you out and you will fall like the humpty dumpties. Hence, frog mentality is a lukewarm mentality. It is the humpty dumpty mentality. By the way I will tell those who think that repentance is just a changing of your mind, a thinking, a philosophy, or a mentality, No, repentance is more than that. Repentance is not just a thinking, repentance is an attitude. It is an humble thinking by the sinners who are determined to come down from their fence and kneel before God to confess their sins. Naturally, they would stop criticising those who point them to repentance too. Well, we may not kneel before God and beat our chest physically; however, we must all (everyone must) have that same thinking or attitude if we will truly repent.
Luk 18:13-14 KJV  And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.  (14)  I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
That's why Jesus said it very clearly why a person who has truly repented is a humble man; not a proud man. This is in line with our understanding of why John the Baptist would reject the Pharisees who came for the water baptism, repentance, or confession of sins too. It's because John the Baptist knew that the Pharisees would just want to treat repentance as a thinking, a confession, or a change of mind with no conviction or humility attitude in their hearts.  They thought that when they just believed and confessed like the rest of the Jews, they would have repented. But, John the Baptist saw their hypocrisy, and hence, demanded that they should do more than that:
Mat 3:6-8 KJV  And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.  (7)  But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?  (8)  Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Hence, Christians who have the 'frog' mentality will behave like the Pharisees too. The 'frogs' may argue or show many people that they can just believe or change their minds, but God's preachers are not convinced that they will truly repent. The 'frogs' may accuse God's preachers for preaching too strongly against sins or condemning sins .., but God's preachers could be doing the right thing !

God can save anyone by grace; God can destroy anyone who are saved by grace too
Now let's go back to the top when I asked the question, "If we are saved by grace, are we forever saved or irrevocably saved". Many may still  wonder why do I talk about the frogs or the lukewarm here. I will tell them, Yes, I talk about the frogs and the lukewarm here because they can still be saved by grace too, and if they will rebel again, they can still be destroyed (after they are saved by grace) too:
Jud 1:5 KJV I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Rev 3:15-19 KJV  I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot ..  (19)  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Obviously, Jesus still loved them and still wanted to give them the grace to repent even though they might have already received grace before they became the frogs or the lukewarm believers. We cannot deny that the frogs and the lukewarm could have received grace and can still be saved by grace (if they repent) and they can still be destroyed (if they rebel) after they have received grace too. Hence, if God can still save the frogs and the lukewarm by grace; God can still destroy them or anyone after they have received grace too.
Many argue that those who have truly received grace can never be rejected by God. I will tell them, The frogs and the lukewarm believers are some of the examples of those who had received grace and yet they were rejected by God. Do you know that the Bible has warned us with many examples of those who received grace and yet they were rejected by God too?
Mat 18:31-34 KJV  So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.  (32)  Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:  (33)  Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?  (34)  And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 22:11-13 KJV  And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:  (12)  And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.  (13)  Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The wedding guest above received grace to attend the wedding too, but he was still rejected in the end. Hence, God can save the ungodly or the stiffnecked people by grace, God can reject them if they turn against Him again:
Jud 1:4-5 KJV  For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.  (5)  I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Do you notice that God could save the Jews out of the land of Egypt and destroy them that believed not? Do you know that God could show grace to anyone and He could still destroy them after that? King Saul was an example.

God gave grace and commandments to His people under the Old Covenant
I have said (in K126) that eternal life is always given by God with His commandments:
1. He gave Adam life + a command. Gen 2:15-17 KJV  And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.  (16)  And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:  (17)  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
2. He gave the Israelites the promised land + the Ten Commandments. He also gave king Saul the kingdom + a commandment too: 1Sa 15:24-25 KJV  And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.  (25)  Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the LORD.
3. He gave us Jesus + a command too: Mat 17:5 KJV  While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
4. Even Jesus give us the Holy Spirit + His commandments: Joh 15:10-26 KJV  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love... (26) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father ..
Joh 17:7-8 KJV  Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.  (8)  For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; ..

God will give grace and commandments to the believers under the New Covenant too
Do you notice that God gave grace to the Jews and everyone including the Gentile sinners; but He gave His commandments only to His people? Yes, we have read the Bible verses that Adam, King Saul, the Jews, and many people may receive grace from God; but if they reject God's commandments, grace cannot save them.
Yes, we may say that we are the believers who have received grace. We may even argue that we are under grace. But, if we reject God's commandments, who can save us? Can Grace or Jesus still save us? No, no one can save us if we reject God's commandments.
Hence, we can understand why many lukewarm believers today would love to argue that they have no more law or commandment. It is because, if they have no more law or commandments, they can argue that there is nothing else which they must do or obey in their walk with God, and therefore, there is nothing else which can take away their eternal security even if they rebel, disobey God, do nothing, or live with their 'frog' mentality to take care of themselves only.

God's warning or command is mainly for the believers; not the sinners in the world outside
But many would still argue, "No, no, no, those fallen people who received grace and still fell were not the true believers. Adam and king Saul were not under grace. They were not true believers. Hence, they fell. The seven churches in Revelation 2-3 were not the true believers, hence, they were the lukewarm believers, including the false prophets in Mat 7:15-23, the tares in Mat 13:24-30, the willful sinners in Heb 10:26-29. How about Ananias and Sapphira? Oh, we can never be them and they can never be us too. It's because they were not the true believers. They were not under grace. That's why they are not saved. Oh, yah, of course, I can remember Simon the sorcerer who believed and was baptised by Philip. Simon was not a true believer; he could be an agnostic believer, and therefore, he would still need to repent and confess his sins according to 1 John 1:9 .. But, please do not use their examples to tell us how to confess our sins and keep God's commandments. We are not the agnostic believers; we are the true believers under grace. We hear only grace (Jesus); not commandments, warnings and condemnation, and hence, we do not confess sins according to 1 John 1:9. We can never sin, fall, or lose our salvation .. we do not need to hear all those warnings (or condemnations about others) to live our life under grace. If we stay in grace, hear grace, hear only the goodnews, and hear nothing evil, we are well."
I will tell them, You are not well; you are under the well. You are not under grace; you are under hyper grace. You are not just a believer; you are a hyper spiritual believer. Hence, you hear only grace; not Jesus. You think that everyone is not true believer; except you yourselves or your people in your own little 'well'.

King Saul was a believer; if he could fall, he could be a warning to us
Do you know that king Saul was a believer? He believed God probably more than some of us. He was anointed. And he prophesied. We may now criticise him as a total failure or an agnostic believer, but do we know that he was chosen among the finest men in the whole country? If king Saul was not a believer who believed God, there was probably no believer in the whole world or whole Israel to be chosen by God too.
1Sa 9:21 KJV  And Saul answered and said, Am not I a Benjamite, of the smallest of the tribes of Israel? and my family the least of all the families of the tribe of Benjamin? wherefore then speakest thou so to me? .. 1Sa 10:1-24 Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance? (6) And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.  (7)  And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee .. (9) And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.  (10)  And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them .. .. (23) And they ran and fetched him thence: and when he stood among the people, he was higher than any of the people from his shoulders and upward.  (24)  And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king.

Whether we are the true believers or not, God's warnings and commandments are still for us
King Saul fell not because he was not a grace believer or a true believer but because of something else which I will not want to explore here. But, it is suffice to say here that his fall should be a good warning or a valid red alert to all of us who are the believers. Hence, Jude would put us in remembrance of God's warning too (Jud 1:4-5)?
I will ask the hyper grace people, Do you think that only your churches have true believers? Are all of you true believers? If we assume that your churches are mostly true believers or that 99% of you are true believers, you still have 1% who still need to hear the gospel of repentance or God's warnings. Will you deny even one lost sheep?
Luk 15:4-10 KJV  What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? .. .. (10) Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
Please think, If Jesus would go all the way to save even one lost sheep (and that lost sheep could be you and me), how much more we should give God's warning or God's command to repent to those who need to hear it? Have we done it? If we need to give an account to the Lord 'in that day', would we be shocked to find out that we had more ungodly men or lost sheep than we thought; but we did nothing to warn them? We might do many wonderful works for the Lord. We might argue that we had preached many positive words. We might preach righteousness marvellously, we might preach peace fantastically, we might do this and that .. but have we preached any warning, any commandment, or any confession of sins for those who may need to hear it? We might preach the name of the Lord beautifully and argue convincingly that the Lord Himself would bring all the sinners to God automatically, but have we obeyed His commandment to preach what He commanded us to preach instead of what we want to preach?
Mat 28:19-20 KJV  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:  (20)  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Mar 6:10-12 KJV  And he said unto them, ..  (11)  And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.  (12)  And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
If we preach only what we think or what other people like, we preach only our own words or positive words; not truly the words of God. The words of God always have the preaching of God's warning, God's commandment, God's doctrine, and repentance. However, if we always change our thinking, always metanoia, always change our minds, always reason with our own thinking, always contradict, always mislead, and rebel, we have not preached the words of God. If we have not preached the words of God, we have not done the will of God. If we have not done the will of God, we have become the false prophets who try to preach like God's preachers.
Mat 7:15-24 KJV Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (16) Ye shall know them by their fruits .. (21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  (22)  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  (23)  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.  (24)  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
If we are called to preach the word of God and we refuse to preach it honestly because of our lawless motives later, we can certainly change from being a God's preacher to a false prophet. King Saul was a clear example of how a God's anointed man who was one of the best among God's race (1Sa 10:24) became a wicked men. King Saul might have tried to prophesy a number of times like before, but after he rebelled against God's commandment, God's Spirit left him:
1Sa 15:24 KJV  And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.
1Sa 18:10 KJV  And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
Of course, if we really have a King or Prince who feeds us with God's words today, we do hope that he will never fall. But, if he behaves like King Saul, no one can help him or save him.

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