I will say, "Of course, I know that I won't lose my salvation so easily. But if I have to give promises to everyone by telling them, "You can never lose your salvation", I could be lying. Why? God did not say so. Jesus did not preach it too even though He did pray to God and confess that no one was lost in Joh 17:12. Besides, I would doubt people's sincerity and repentance if they would come to Jesus only after they are promised 'too good to be true' gospel, guarantee of salvation no matter how they sin, and radical grace. I will say this for myself humbly, and same for many people who have come to know the Lord, "We did not know any too good to be true promises, radical guarantee of salvation regardless of how we sin, or radical grace, but yet we would just believe and accept the Lord. It shows that many people have been (and can be) saved like us too. Hence, why do we need to guarantee it before people will repent and come to the Lord? Did Jonah or John the Baptist give guarantee before they asked the people to repent? No, the gospel of Jesus Christ through repentance alone is powerful enough unto salvation (Romans 1:16). We don't need to add any guarantee to it to attract the people to God. Even if it doesn't attract people, God would not need us to add our own guarantee to it."
Did God say, "You can never lose your salvation?"
I will tell them, You said above, What if we tell people that they can lose their salvation? Will they live like the devil? You bet. They will give up and turn to more sins .. However, this is contrary to what the law preachers or 'do good get good preachers' complained. They said, If we tell them that they can never lose their salvation, they will abuse it and sin like the devil.." I do not agree with both sides. Why? Some traditional preachers did tell us that we can lose our salvation; but did we live like the devil? No. Now, please look at Adam and Eve, the devil did tell them that they can never die or lose their salvation, did they live like the devil? They didn't too. So, it doesn't mean that if we preach the wrong gospel, people will live like the devil immediately. There are implications which may not be very clear until much later, like the fall of Adam and Eve. Hence, what concern us most now is not whether people will live like the devil; what concern us most now is whether we have preached like the devil.. Hence, I will ask ourselves with questions like: Did we preach like Jesus or Paul? Or did we preach like the devil (who deliberately gave false 'guarantee' to rebel against God's commandment) :
Gen 2:16-17 KJV And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. .. 3:1-5 KJV Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (2) And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: (3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (5) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Please read the Bible. God has never given us any guarantee that we will not die or lose our salvation if we should fall away or reject His commandments. Please think, If we can never lose our salvation no matter what we do, we can just take away all the Bible warnings and put in only our own words; like "You can never lose your salvation, you shall never die, you shall live, you shall prosper, you shall do this .. and that.. Well, does it sound familiar? It may not be the words of God; it could be voice of our 'old men'"
Luk 12:16-21 KJV And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: (17) And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? (18) And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. (19) And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. (20) But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? (21) So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
I know that radical grace preachers will argue and say that the rich man was not a believer; he was a Jew, a non-believer, a Pharisee, or a wicked sinner. I will ask them, Did the Bible say so? If you would like to speculate, I would speculate that the rich man could be a false prophet too?
God did give us the promise of His son but not the guarantee of no falling away
They will argue, "How about Rom 8:38-39 KJV For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, (39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Don't you agree that it is a guarantee for us?"
I will tell them, It is not a guarantee. God has never used the word 'guarantee' or 'swear' when he gives mercy or forgiveness to the sinners. Only the sinners would like to think that He has 'guaranteed' it to them. Why? If any things go wrong, they can accuse God and blame God for their falling away. Yes, God may have said it with stronger affirmation in His covenants with Abraham. However, God did mention that, in both the Old and New covenants, there are laws and commandments:
- Old Covenant - Exo 19:5 KJV Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: Deu 26:18 KJV And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments;
- New Covenant - Heb 8:8-13 KJV .. (10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. (12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. .Rev 14:11-12 KJV And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
I will ask them, Are there laws and commandments to keep in both covenant? You bet. So, how can we tell people that there is no more law or no more commandment to keep? If there are laws and commandments to keep, does it make sense to tell people that there is no judgement? No. This is common sense:
There are no laws and no commandments = there is no judgement
but if there are laws and commandments, there would be judgement. This is simple truth:
There are laws and commandments = there is judgement
I quoted the Bible verses for the two covenants because they are like the 'guarantee' from God. In the Old Covenant, God "avouched"; in the New Covenant, He just said, "I will", but we know that it is as good as a guarantee. He means it and He will do it. But did He say that we are His peculiar people even if we sin, rebel, and reject His commandments? No, if we do not keep His laws and commandments, the guarantee would be a reverse. It means that if we do not keep His laws and commandments, we are not His people and we would not be saved. They will still argue, "How about Rom 8:38-39? You haven't answer us yet." I will tell them, If you have God's laws in your hearts or if you keep His laws and commandments, of course, you are His peculiar people. And if you are His peculiar people, neither
death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things
present, nor things to come, (39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any
other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which
is in Christ Jesus our Lord - Rom 8:38-39. Hence, this Bible verse will still apply. It does not contradict with the requirement for us to keep His laws and commandments.Churches, Please think, Why do we still keep God's commandments? Why did Jesus tell the devil that it is written .. , it is written .. , it is written .. in Matt 4:4-11 ? It is because the devil had kept telling man and probably the Lord that there was no more law, no more commandment, and no more command from God. Hence, when Jesus said, "It is written" three times, He was telling the devil assuredly that there was law, there was commandment, and there was still God's command for man, Mat 4:4 KJV But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God... (10) .. Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Believers can still leave after receiving the goodness of the Lord
They will argue, "But we don't believe in keeping any laws or commandments. We believe in grace. If we are under grace; we are not under law and therefore we do not need to keep any laws. It doesn't make sense to keep the laws to be in the love of God, to be guaranteed that we are the peculiar people of God... No, if we have believed in Christ, we can never leave Christ. We can never lose our salvation .."
I will ask them, Who says, If we have believed in Christ or received the goodness of Christ, we can never leave or lose our salvation? Did Jesus say it? If not, then it is just your own saying. Do you know that there were a lot of believers (even disciples) who believed after receiving the goodness of the Lord, and yet still left?
Joh 6:13-66 KJV Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten. (14) Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. (15) When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone ... (24) When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus. (25) And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither? (26) Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled ... (60) Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? .. (66) From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
These disciples had received the goodness of the Lord and believed Jesus. However, when they stayed longer with Jesus and knew more about His teaching, they would not want to follow Him anymore. Of course, if the Lord's teaching was all about eating and drinking, multiplying bread for their children, creation of wealth and prosperity for their ambitious desires, and prosperous economic development for their nation, do you think that they will leave Him? However, the Lord told them none of these, but instead He preached on the kingdom of God, repentance, and many hard sayings. Please think, when your preachers don't preach the Jesus who can multiply bread for you, prosper you, or do many things for you, will you leave them, and look for another who can satisfy you? Jesus knew that those disciples who came to Him were not true disciples. True disciples will not just want to eat 'bread'; they will accept everything that He will teach them including the hard sayings, God's commandments, and repentance.
If we are still in the world, we will still have to preach God's warnings
Radical grace preachers will argue, "Those disciples who left Jesus were not true disciples. But we are the real disciples. So, those warnings are not for us. Those warnings are for those who are not true disciples..."
I will ask them, Are you saying that all your disciples in your churches are true disciples and therefore these warnings are not for your churches? If you always give this kind of blind promises to your church members, you are not a good preacher. I am sure every church has true believers, false believers, or sinners, unless you are a perfect church. If you have sinners or false believers in your churches, don't you know that God's have given you the responsibility to preach repentance or warn them. If your churches have only the righteous coming to you, then how are you going to preach the gospel or reach out to the sinners. Obviously, your arguments to give only vain guarantees to your believers or sinners are your excuses to preach only the good sayings which the Lord has never told you to preach. You have rebelled against the Lord by hiding or preaching nothing about repentance or the truth which could be hard sayings to the sinners and the unrepentant.
God's preachers will not preach blindness to the churches in the name of grace or false assurance
Radical grace preachers will still argue, "That's condemnation. But we will never preach this type of condemnation. We preach only the good things which will save people. There are too many warnings, stressful words, and harsh words in the world. We want to preach the different thing. We will preach only the good things. So, please don't get jealous when more and more people come to us and less and less people go to you. One day you will repent, you will metanoia, change your mind. Do you know that we have been stressing a lot on the blood of Jesus Christ. If the blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, the Grace Himself, cannot guarantee salvation to those who are washed by His blood, how can He be God? His blood would be no difference from the blood of the goats and lambs... We believe that once cleansed always cleansed, once saved forever saved, once we've believe, we will believe forever, once repented, no more repentance required, once forgiven forever forgiven, once justified, no more future sins, once ..."
I don't know how you can get all those ideas once you believe, you will believe forever, once ...etc. But I know that the Bible has just told us that
- Heb 10:10 KJV By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. I will say, Yes, I believe that Jesus could do it once and for all because He is the Son of God and His blood is powerful enough to cleanse everyone not only in the past, present, but also future. But does it mean that, therefore, we, the sinners, will just need to repent once, and we will not need to repent anymore based on this Bible verse? I am not very convinced. It is just your assumption based on this verse.
- There were those who believed and did not believe anymore, there were those who tasted the goodness of God and did not follow all the teaching of the Lord .. Mat 13:18-22 KJV Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. (19) When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. (20) But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; (21) Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. (22) He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
You can argue that none of you or any believers of your churches fall into any of the above categories. But can we believe you when you say it or preach it? No, you are lying. Even the churches of the Apostles had Ananias, Sapphira, Simon the sorcerer, Pharisees believers, and many who had turned against the gospel. (see "The death of Ananias and Sapphira is the clear evidence that there is still judgement in the church of God" in my another post). Please be honest, Can you guarantee that your churches and believers are much better than theirs? No, even Paul would not have the confidence to boast like you. If He had the confidence, he should assure the believers that they could never fall because of the blood of Jesus. But why would he warn the believers, especially those who had been purchased by the blood of Jesus, to watch against the false prophets, with tears and unceasing prayers for three years? Isn't it clear to us that Paul was terribly afraid that the false prophets could draw them away and cause them to fall and lose their salvation?
Act 20:27-32 KJV For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. (28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (29) For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. (30) Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. (31) Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. (32) And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
I know there are preachers who would twist and say that Paul's tears is the tears of joy because he saw victory in the churches after much prayers. Well, only blind believers or desperate believers who want to believe in the 'too good to be true' gospel will try to think that there is no more warnings and no more tears in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I will ask them, If it is not a warning, why did Paul say, 'Therefore watch.." in (v31) ? I would tell the people that it was a serious warning, not only for them; but for us also, because it is a great responsibility when Paul said, "(28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." I would say that after warning and preaching of all the above, we are still preaching the gospel of grace as Paul continued and said in (v32):
And
now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace,
which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all
them which are sanctified.
I will ask them, What is your real intention of preaching and arguing that you can never lose your salvation? Is it to give assurance to yourselves, to appease the sinners of the world, or to preach against God's warnings? Probably only you yourselves can answer this honestly
Malachi 2 & 3 is God's warning for all those who preach God's words too
They will argue, "You have misquoted Paul's warning. Paul warned us that we could lose our salvation because we may lose the blood of Jesus Christ. When we lose the blood of Jesus Christ, of course, we will then lose our salvation. We can lose the blood on only one condition, ie. when we listen to the law preachers and the Pharisees. When we believe in the law or live under the law, we will lose grace. When we lose grace, we will lose our salvation. So, we should warn others not to believe in the law. I believe Paul had warned the believers about this with tears.." I will tell them, Well, I can accept your explanation too. But you have just evaded and changed your doctrine from saying that "You can never lose your salvation" to "You can lose your salvation if you are under the law". Will you change again when we prove to you that you can lose your salvation if you are under sins or lawlessness? I don't think I need to prove to you anymore if you accept the fact that you will lose your salvation if you go back to the law, the old covenant, or the law of circumcision. Why? If you will lose salvation because you are under the law or because you preach the law as the gospel, will you lose your salvation if you preach lawlessness, disobedience, golden calves, anti-repentance, or false doctrines? You may argue that none of you will preach all those things because you are truly saved and therefore these warnings are not for you. But my question is: If you think that you and your believers can never preached or listened to the wrong doctrines, why would you warn that your believers can listen to the law doctrines and live under the law again? It doesn't make sense to warn the people about the law and the hypocrisy of the Pharisees without warning them about lawlessness, false doctrines, and disobedience. By the way, the Pharisees were a kind of false prophets. Although they preached the laws, they were lawless in the eyes of God because they would never do God's commandments. If you preached against the Pharisees and warned your believers against them, you have shown to us that your believers could lose their salvation. So, there is no need to pretend. If we need to warn and condemn sins, we just do it. We don't have to impress others by saying that "we can preach better because we never condemn anyone or give any warning - You can never lose your salvation !"
Mal 2:1-17 KJV And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. (2) If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. (3) Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it. (4) And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. (5) My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. (6) The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity. (7) For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. (8) But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. (9) Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law. (10) Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? (11) Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god. (12) The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the LORD of hosts. (13) And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand. (14) Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. (15) And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. (16) For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously. (17) Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?
Mal 3:1-18 KJV Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. (2) But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: (3) And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. (4) Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years. ...
(13) Your words have been stout against me, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee? (14) Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts? (15) And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered. ..
Mal 4:1-6 KJV For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. (2) But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. (3) And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. (4) Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. (5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
We all know that this is a prophecy about the coming of Jesus. That's why many Jews would think that John the Baptist was Elijah the prophet who was sent to prepare the way for the Lord who will "sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. (4) Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years. - Malachi 3:3-4.
I did not intent to show the whole chapter of Malachi but I believed that more Bible verses could explain it better and show it to us why the Pharisees and the priests could have corrupted God's laws and covenant by preaching their own version of 'too good to be true' gospel:
Mal 2:17 KJV Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?
I don't think that denying or rejecting EVERY warning as soon as we find it in our Bible is the solution.
It is like putting our head into the sand. If God's warning is for us,
it is for us; it will judge us no matter how we dig a hole to hide
ourselves.::
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